Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by iV on July 29, 2008 at 3:59pm

i do perceive the benefit, bret. but not because i've bought the hype. it's because i've experienced it first hand. i think we're both on the same page, just parsing the data differently.

i, too, have a dream. we've made progress. but we're not there yet. but that won't stop me from trying. or believing.

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on July 29, 2008 at 4:20pm

Steve, I do think we are fairly on the same page, same book anyway. I tend to come at this from a more conservative slant and I would guess you have a more liberal slant and that is totally cool, long live diversity! Thankfully, we can have a discourse in a civilized manner. I appreciate that you consider your thoughts carefully. I do think the discussion (with or without action) can divide if we aren't careful, especially if it is done absent of compassion and love. I think the media exploitation of the issue causes harm and I think the lack of education for all causes even more divide. We have to start there ...

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Permalink Reply by iV on July 29, 2008 at 4:31pm

it's too easy to label each other conservative or liberal. those terms are all so relative...and too easy to carry a prejudice of their own with them. i think what's most important is the ability to actively listen before we speak.
there's always something i can learn. i just have to be open to the process.

and a big "damn straight" on the point of compassion and love.

i'll quote jung again (as i'm really jung at heart): "where love rules, there is no will to power, and where power predominates, love is lacking. the one is the shadow of the other."

and to quote another guy who's name gets thrown around here quite a bit: "by this all men will know that you are my disciples: if you have love for one another."

Permalink Reply by Hale White on July 29, 2008 at 3:29pm

You're right. It'll never fully go away. People naturally gravitate towards groups that they can identify with. We embrace a group mentality. Everywhere we look we see examples of it. High school football games between two rival teams. Reality shows that have Red Team vs. the Blue Team. Men have jokes about women and vice versa. "I'm a Ford man", "I'm a Chevy man". East coast vs. West coast.

There will always be hubris. Are we really surprised that a society built around separating people into categories and teams contains traces of racism here and there? We condone the group mentality in every other facet of life, but all the sudden people expect it to be so drastically different when it comes to different cultures.

I just think we should respect our differences and unique traits. I'm not sure I would embrace some of these differences, (I don't even know what that means or what that would entail) but I would respect them. There's a lot of things about different cultures that I cannot personally embrace, but I might be able to respect them for embracing it.

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Permalink Reply by Hale White on July 29, 2008 at 4:21pm

For the most part, people that are in jail deserve to be there. The fact that very alluring products are advertised to the mass public in no way excuses crime, stealing, or selling drugs to kids in order to get the money to buy those things.

However, I do believe that the system plays a big part in it. The challenge is for people to see the system for what it is and rise above that. It's possible.

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on July 29, 2008 at 4:31pm

Tammy, not trying to pick on you, but it's a little more complex than wealth redistribution. Without wealth, there would be no great institutions, public service, or charity. This has been proven in societies that attempt wealth redistribution. Everyone who despises the rich would trade places with them at a moments notice. The challenge is educating the wealthy to their responsibility to do something great with their wealth. And most do.

Before values can be practiced, they must be learned and in order to learn values, they must be seen.

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on July 29, 2008 at 5:03pm

Parker Brothers did put out a version of "The Glad Game" do you own it? :)

Permalink Reply by iV on July 29, 2008 at 4:43pm

you're right.

i am a liberal and you are a conservative.

let's call the whole thing off.

:)

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on July 29, 2008 at 4:51pm

I distinctively remember saying, slant...

Neither of us would put up with or encourage racism. We might differ on it's prevalence and the solutions...but never the distastefulness.

(But I know you were actually signing when you wrote that.)

Permalink Reply by Mike Radcliffe on July 29, 2008 at 6:18pm

So only white people are racist, Steve?
There are no white victims of racism?

I know you know there are. :-p

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Permalink Reply by iV on July 29, 2008 at 6:46pm

i never said racism is only limited to whites. take a look globally and you'll see that racism can occur whenever one ethnic group can exercise power over another.

the reality of racism is that everyone becomes a victim. it affects all of us. however, within the context of systemic racism within america, you're more often than not to see minorities disenfranchised.

"reverse racism" is a bit of a smoke and mirrors argument. even if we grant that it occurs, it in no way negates (or excuses) the racism we find towards minorities that still bubbles under the surface and is fed by our prejudices. let's face it. for every instance of a white victim of racism in this country, you'll find hundreds more instances of black victims of racism. one could also argue that reverse racism is a reaction/result of minority oppression. it's certainly not a cause.

as a white man, i've been a "victim" of prejudice. but i've never been a "victim" of racism. most minorities that i speak with can't say the same.

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on July 29, 2008 at 6:59pm

Steve,

Go deeper. It's not fair to make statements such as,

as a white man, i've been a "victim" of prejudice. but i've never been a "victim" of racism. most minorities that i speak with can't say the same.

and not tell us exactly how minorities are being discriminated against in today's culture and business climate. Specifically, the music industry. It's not enough to say Racism just exists. Tell us what's going on so we can help stop it.

It's easy to make a blanket statement like that, but how can we take action if we don't know what to erradicate?

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