Hey guys! I am mixing a rock record on a J9000 soon. The producer is a big time boy band guy. (nsync , backstreet, aaron carter...) We were discussing recalls which I am used to doing it the SSL way, recall the board. He said they use to just print everything to Pro Tools and do recalls that way. ??? What no board compression?
Okay, I am open to that, but I said we have to at least play it back thru the board.
His concern is speed and accuracy... Mine is rock-n-roll.
My first concern would be the fact that you would be adding processing on top of processing in order to change a sound on recall. Not the same as adjusting a previous setting on original source. But, if levels are all you're concerned about, his way sounds plausible. But, you are very right about the board compression.
It has become very vogue for producers and A&R guys to request stems of ProTools groups and such so they can go back in and fix their misjudgments during mix time an not have to use any of the creative team that may have created the mix in the first place. That brings up a whole other set of issues, but anyway, seems like what you are talking about is the opposite. Taking a board mix and "stemming" it to ProTools. Did I interpret that right?
Yes, you got it right, stems to PT for "recalls". Yeah! You brought up a whole new can of worms, the label's ability to think it has a way to make new versions without the artist or producer.. Versions with a great potential for sonically sucking!
Anyways, I thought about this more. The whole point of mixing on a board is running into the stereo buss!! Not to comp & eq tracks so you can make stems to combine later!!!! Right??? Geez, I getting more perturbed thinking about it. And as you mentioned, adding more A/D conversions.
O.K. I just wanted to get another opinion. I didn't think I was that way off, but the Chief Engineer down there says he does it all the time because he has several people that need to approve the mix and he can't leave it on the board. Made it sound like it was no big deal, when in fact its a big deal>>
I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in on this one just for fun, and because Salvo is mixing a Rock Record(do we still say that in today’s market or is it just a Rock Recording to MP3?)
Now for starters can anyone tell me "who's in there right mind" that they believe pro-tools or any other DAW out there is more then just a modern day tape machine with great edit features? Tape sounds better and consoles (Analog!) sound better when you use them (using them is the key here folks). I think the fact that people don't know how to listen with the ears they have been giving is the big problem here. I know how cool we all think we are with our Iphones (I have one and depend on it till i get Idropped calls or out of signal range) and other gadgets because we can do things faster and get more done. The big problem is that when all this total recall in the box starts happening you have just lost all the feeling and emotion you got recording it. Using amp farm, auto-tune, & every other plug-in under the sun changes the sound from what you wanted to hit your hard drive / tape machine off the console in the first place. The only way to get that back is to; play the audio back out analog through the console. Try to tell any female that speed and accuracy is the concern when you are with them and see what happens! Ha-Ha
I thought you could all use a laugh after this one!
Rock on brother,
Why not a compromise? Bring everything out individual outs into a console, set all of the console's faders to zero and mix in the box. Just use the console for the summing. Do all of the processing in the box. Try to set up your outs into mono outs that will be panned straight up the middle... kick, bass snare... or stereo outs so you can pan the console faders hard left and right. That way the recall is a no brainer and just takes a matter of seconds. You can still use the mix buss compressor if you want, just write that down. This way, he gets a fast and fool proof recall and you get at least some of the good parts of an analog board. After all, the point is to give the client what they want, or at least as much of what they want as is possible. There is also another good reason for doing it that way... it won't be long before everyone will expect you to mix in the box and it would be good to make the jump sooner than later. Take this with a grain of salt though... I don't mix much, mostly editing. Although I've watched Jeff Balding do this very thing. -Jed
That's one heck of a summing box! I'd love to see this setup with a Waves SSL channel strip strapped across every track in PT... just to get that famed SSL sound! :) No disrespect to those who are forced to work this way due to the flexibility that instant and infinite recalls allow, but I agree with Pepper on this one--actually using the console is key to getting the full sonic benefit it provides.
It might be interesting to note that Digidesign did extensive tests with big name engineers mixing the same material on an SSL and then doing just what you suggested, using Waves SSL channelstrip "in the box" - meticulously duplicating the console settings on the same tracks. When the mixes where placed online for other engineers to pick the order when the audio switched randomly from A to B, in all cases, they guessed right about 43% of the time. This effectively proved that no one can tell the difference. Just putting that out there.
Jed, I just recently did the zero fader mix. It works to an extent. You are still fiddling with stuff that takes your mind off mixing. In addition, on a board you are going to want to use the eq's and compressors.
Last few years a lot of my mixes have been in the box with a SSL compressor strapped over the 2 buss. Works incredible. This record is unusual though, it is supposed to be comprise free.
Hi Slavo, I agree with the wanting to tweek eq's and compressors on the console ... it's kind of like sitting a plate of fresh baked chocolate chip cookies in front of you and trying not to touch them while you work. It just feels good turning knobs as opposed to moving a mouse. Good luck on the project- Jed