"Hope to see all of you in Nashville this summer!"
How would you respond?
I received a very disturbing and somewhat comical phone call tonight from a young man I accepted a Facebook "friend" request from a while back. I accepted it because there were 35 other peers listed as his friend and I thought there was no reason not to accept him. I may have even accepted him even if there were not 35 of my peers in his friend list. I suspect many of you are getting calls or messages from the same young man.
The opening of his conversation with me was something along the line of; "hey, this is first name>>, I figured you would be the one to talk to about this whole music thing..." and the conversation digressed from there as I tried to figure out who this was and how I might know him. After listening to a diatribe of rejection stories and "nobody will talk to me" language, and a lecture on how everyone in Nashville, especially the CCM crowd, were all just trying to protect their livelihoods (whatever that meant), I agreed to have him send me links to his material. He seemed to be very argumentative and angry and disturbed by the fact that his life was a mess and nobody would help him by giving him a record deal..
I told him I would listen and do one of two things; give constructive criticism or pass it on to people who could really help him break as an artist.
After listening to all three of his songs, I sent him this message;
I will be totally honest with you and tell you your songs, musicality and voice are not marketable. Your singing ability is not what masses of people will want to spend money on to listen to. This is not to say your efforts are not genuine or an offering to God, but the facts are facts. Your abilities are not on par with what is commercially acceptable. The sooner you can come to that realization, the sooner you will have peace in your life.
[his reply}
not a good enough reason to take me off of your page. I could get quite upset with your attitude. YOU are really not that important!
also, I already have one of the largest labels interested.
you basically are the antithesis of the early believer!
[and his further reply]
I also have a problem with how you kind of "tricked" me. I would never have told you that you added my page if I had known you weren't kind, understanding, thoughtful, or astute.
I never said that music was commercially ready. I don't have gear now. I can put out stuff that is top quality.
[my last (and final) reply to him]
You'll just have to have a problem with me. You are absolutely right. I am not that important, never have been and never will be. Would not even consider myself to be. I told you I would give you my honest opinion and I did. It would indeed be very "unkind" of me to lie to you and tell you are a great and gifted musician/singer/writer/whatever... when you are not. You don't have to agree. Get back with me when you put out something "top quality."
Now my question. How would some of you have handled this situation?
The reason I ask is, because of the Internet, we are probably going to see more an more of these kind of dialogs with people who we come into contact. While I am always open to finding new talent to help or possibly work with, I would like to have more insight on how to handle people who are (for the most part) delusional about their talents and/or abilities.
I don't think this would be in the same category as unknowingly passing on the next big artist.
The opening of his conversation with me was something along the line of; "hey, this is first name>>, I figured you would be the one to talk to about this whole music thing..." and the conversation digressed from there as I tried to figure out who this was and how I might know him. After listening to a diatribe of rejection stories and "nobody will talk to me" language, and a lecture on how everyone in Nashville, especially the CCM crowd, were all just trying to protect their livelihoods (whatever that meant), I agreed to have him send me links to his material. He seemed to be very argumentative and angry and disturbed by the fact that his life was a mess and nobody would help him by giving him a record deal..
I told him I would listen and do one of two things; give constructive criticism or pass it on to people who could really help him break as an artist.
After listening to all three of his songs, I sent him this message;
I will be totally honest with you and tell you your songs, musicality and voice are not marketable. Your singing ability is not what masses of people will want to spend money on to listen to. This is not to say your efforts are not genuine or an offering to God, but the facts are facts. Your abilities are not on par with what is commercially acceptable. The sooner you can come to that realization, the sooner you will have peace in your life.
[his reply}
not a good enough reason to take me off of your page. I could get quite upset with your attitude. YOU are really not that important!
also, I already have one of the largest labels interested.
you basically are the antithesis of the early believer!
[and his further reply]
I also have a problem with how you kind of "tricked" me. I would never have told you that you added my page if I had known you weren't kind, understanding, thoughtful, or astute.
I never said that music was commercially ready. I don't have gear now. I can put out stuff that is top quality.
[my last (and final) reply to him]
You'll just have to have a problem with me. You are absolutely right. I am not that important, never have been and never will be. Would not even consider myself to be. I told you I would give you my honest opinion and I did. It would indeed be very "unkind" of me to lie to you and tell you are a great and gifted musician/singer/writer/whatever... when you are not. You don't have to agree. Get back with me when you put out something "top quality."
Now my question. How would some of you have handled this situation?
The reason I ask is, because of the Internet, we are probably going to see more an more of these kind of dialogs with people who we come into contact. While I am always open to finding new talent to help or possibly work with, I would like to have more insight on how to handle people who are (for the most part) delusional about their talents and/or abilities.
I don't think this would be in the same category as unknowingly passing on the next big artist.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by MArc-Alan Barnette on -
About the best way I have heard it responded to.
Marc-Alan Barnette
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Permalink Reply by Jimi Whitelaw on -
I would have suggested that he contact NSAI. Its a great place for people just starting out to meet some folks, get critiques and even some sit down one on one time with someone willing to listen. That way you've saved yourself from looking like you dont care AND he will actually get some useful information and tools.
Jimi
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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on -
Taking time to be truthful with some one looks like I don't care? Really?
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Permalink Reply by Jimi Whitelaw on
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Sorry i should have prefaced my comment. I would have suggested NSAI from the get go of your conversation with him.
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Permalink Reply by Jim Evans on -
I recall what Arthur Smith told me the first time that I wrote a song and did it in his studio in Charlotte.
He said,"Jim, Some good songs sell most don't- some bad songs sell most don't, I have listened to your song and I don't think it will sell. But if you have the money to record produce, and plug it -Give it a try!
I did and it didn't. Later a few did.
You are never closer to victory than when you fail. If you learn why you failed.
Maybe a few failures will lead to humility for the young person.
The taste of success is salty from the sweat you put into that which you are successful at.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Good job Bret.
Jim
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Permalink Reply by Joe Pasquale on -
well said.....errrrr "written" ;) !!
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Permalink Reply by Juni Fisher on -
I don't have much to add to this, but you were as gracious as possible.
I have had folks come to me with "not ready for prime time" songs and ask for critique, but what they wanted was for me to say it was great, that I'd pitch it for them, that I'd record it, etc etc.
You did him a favor. There are a lot of misinformed, and delusional people out in the world. Wish them luck and go forward. No wonder so many of us don't WANT to "help" though, the nut cases really do come out of the woodwork.
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Permalink Reply by Jim 'The Reverb King' Brown on -
I'm surprised that ya'll don't have this happen more often - I don't have nearly as much to offer and I've had my share of, umm (how do you say it politely?) people bug me and then get mad that I didn't think their stuff was all that great, or that I wanted to be paid to record them... Brett, you were more cordial than you needed to be, next time don't answer the phone, you do have caller ID and v-mail right?
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Permalink Reply by Garrett Hestla on -
You handled it very well I think. This guy is disturbed. I have worked with "disturbed" people before and they are like black holes. Anyone who gets close gets sucked in with no hope of escape....
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Permalink Reply by Keith Mohr on -
I would not have engaged him at all. You are too nice, Bret!
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Permalink Reply by Pete Warren on -
Despite this warning, and despite the fact that one of my best friends told me he'd been hit by this guy... He got me a couple of months back. Everything you've said (and Ric D too) is true. He told me that my dear friend is bi-polar and in need of serious help. I shut this guy off so fast it wasn't even funny. There's bad business practices out there, but this is something entirely different. This is psychopathic or at best sociopathic behavior.
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Permalink Reply by lynne robin green on -
Well, from 32 years of experience in dealing with songwriters as a music publisher ,
my advice would be- that its really best to critique and give advice ONLY in person.That way you see how the advice given is being perceived by the Writer and further help and interact -with the reactions and input you get back too.
Why you NEVER critique by mail or email--IS because you never know how it being perceived at the other end firstly,
and secondly to tell someone that they have no talent at all by your own opinion
IN an email is not productive nor kind.
Unless you can offer LEARNED experienced constructive criticism that HELPS that person perfect and improve their craft-THEN giving that opinion and advice NOT productively -will have the opposite effect and reaction.
And getting their sense of rejection and facing their defensiveness and hurt would be and is the only likely result.
Sure you get those types that will bait you to like their work -and IF you say YOU dont -they always will say THAT someone else thinks ITS great and YOURE just wrong...
My experience has taught me that Its a waste of time and good energy- to be really critical of someones songs-
when and IF --you cant or YOU DONT offer any suggestion's at all for improvement.
First be positive.
Otherwise--anger is the only kind of reaction you get.
And funny but a writer did the same thing to me-tricked me into adding him on facebook-then hit me on overload with mp3s without asking--after I added him
and when I got upset-
he totally went ballistic that I owed HIM a listen and whats wrong with me..
Turns out some of my other friends on facebook had the same problem with HIM right off the bat..
He was deleted from friends in 2 days.
Lesson is--just as John Braheny says-
You Never tell someone that their baby's just ugly.
Help not hinder, and when YOU KNOW you cant help ,just dont offer.
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From the musical/drama "Courage to Stand: The Story of Esther."
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