Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joseph Akins on February 22, 2009 at 6:09pm

Thanks for NRW+E. I had a great time and learned a lot. - Joseph Akins

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Permalink Reply by George Cumbee on February 22, 2009 at 7:08pm

Mike:

Not to sound too whiney or disrespectful, but was this even a PRO event.? When I looked at the schedule several weeks ago it looked to be mainly geared to homies and beginners it seemed. That is why I elected to not attend or be involved. I feel that supporting the very thing that is threatening what music industry is left was not
something I needed to do. I was curious how well it would be attended by those who are considered to be the pros in town(or out) and make a daily attempt at a living at it.

Go ahead and flame me those who care to.

George
Classic Recording, Franklin

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Permalink Reply by Mike Porter on February 22, 2009 at 8:20pm

You're not being disrespectful or whiney at all. It was geared towards the songwriters and musicians who have home studios and want to get more out of what they've got to. That was basically the opening statement on the website. It was also for the recording enthusiast/hobbyist and student. We had some of all of those categories in attendance. If they've got access to the equipment, then let's teach them how to use it properly and stop turning out crap. The pros were the teachers. All the pros that presented at the workshop were in favor of this event. The majority of those who attended were from out of town and a few from even out of the country! England, Canada, and Costa Rica were represented. It's difficult to convey by written statement in a post someone's tone, so please don't misinterpret this statement, which is strictly my own opinion, but the things that are threatening this industry go way deeper than someone sitting at home with an M-box and a computer.
Respectfully,
Mike

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Permalink Reply by George Cumbee on February 23, 2009 at 8:20am

Mike: Thanks for the reply. Yes it does go way beyond that level. It is more about what is happening at levels above and beyond that and all that goes along with it. That is a whole different discussion if it has not already been many times.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Porter on February 23, 2009 at 8:38am

Yes, you and I both know where the problem at higher levels is. I have those discussions with people all the time and I don't think either one of us necessarily wants to open that can of worms here!
MP

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on February 23, 2009 at 10:34am

You gotta open the worms before you can fish. LOL!

Mike, I totally understand George's point of view. It is all too easy to imagine the help we would give to home recording musicians and amateurs/hobbyists coming back around to end our careers (as engineers and studio owners) but I love your point of teaching them how to use the gear right. I commend you and AES for taking on this type of event. I could not be there due to schedules but wish I could have. I know I would have learned something!

As in any industry, there will always be a certain amount of "weeding" out that happens and is tied to forces far bigger than the home recording boom. Some of the those home recorders will find that they are just not able to compete on a professional level and against years of experience. But others will break through and surprise us all.

Those who will survive will be those who find ways to leverage their talents and assets in ways that will produce income, which will certainly come from helping others achieve what they are trying to achieve, not by fighting forces that threaten to end our careers.

Isn't that the way it's always been?

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Permalink Reply by George Cumbee on February 23, 2009 at 10:42am

Bret: Point taken, but all we ask is to compete on a even playing field. Yeilding income is one thing, but doing it in a legal and just matter accoring to the rule of law is another....
Operate a legit brick and mortar place in a business zone(not skirting under the local zoning radar screen) and pay all the appropriate business thaxes, licenses, etc that go along with that. If one can do that then more power to them. No doctor, banker or name many other practices could operate the way our industry has become. It would violate many laws and rules. Why is it that no one cares that people are making 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars this way and no one seems to care?....and it wrecks an industry in the process....

So there....I went fishing....my worms are warm too...

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on February 23, 2009 at 10:54am

You and I agree on that...

But we can't stop the independent engineer/musician from having a recording setup in his bedroom/basement as long as he is doesn't have a string of client traffic. Last time I checked, that doesn't violate any business or zoning laws. Maybe I am wrong.

That would be like trying to stop real estate agents or plumbers from operating out of a home office. Just won't happen.

You are understandably upset about the loss of business due to musicians electing to record for their clients at home. But I can't say I blame them. Have I lost engineer business because of this? Well of course. So I have had to find other ways to make money.

You are probably most upset with folks who market and sell studio time out of a state-of-the-art studio that happens to be in their basement for $300 a day or less.

Now if we are talking about "full blown" facilities in a home environment operating as a studio business, that's a different story. Yes, they SHOULD abide all the zoning and business laws - for sure! But the fact is, the large percentage of musicians and engineers recording/mixing at home are not attempting to run a huge commercial studio recording business. They are just using their home office as a tool of their trade.

Nice fishing with you!

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Permalink Reply by George Cumbee on February 23, 2009 at 12:45pm

Bret:

Did not mean to get a big thing going here. I feel bad that I sort of de-railed Mike's excellent thread regarding the AES event. That was not the intent. Maybe we should move this elsewhere as a separate discussion. You can make that call. My apologies to Mike....

I will say in regard to the last point....First of all Plumbers and REA's have to be licensed and accredited by the state and local governments to do their work. No one in our field does. That in itself is an issue. Next, they are not doing their work directly there. Somewhat as is phone, billing, etc. But the government will argue that constitutes 'doing business'. Whether they hang a shingle out or not or have a street full of traffic or not, they still are supposed to be 'licensed; and pay all applicable taxes, local business, state franchise/excise, sales tax, etc, etc if they are 'doing business' and charging for it....I have to and many others do also. In KY, I used to live in the county and had a office there, but I did work in the city so I had to obtain a business license and was taxed on my income along with the county. Now I am in the city and still have a license. I am a KY corp, dba domesticated in TN and licensed to do business anywhere in the state. I pay all business and property taxes to Franklin, Williamson, CO. State Franchise/Excise and Sales tax to State of TN. There are probably many home studios doing more annual gross than I am and likely reporting little if any of it and paying nothing to be doing it. This is what this is all about......

Willianson County just announced last week that they are beginning a crackdown on businesses that are not paying taxes, those who should be paying and are not and those not reporting what they are really making. There was a large story about it in the paper. Not sure how they are going to do all that. They have already been checking into some businesses. One thing I found interesting was how they said they were going to compare one business to a like business and if the lower is thought to be under-reporting they could bill them based on the other. Now, I am not too sure how they plan to legally to that. How can one company be compared to a like company as to income. Seems crazy. But since we are facing a socialistic future anyway in this country I guess anything is possible. I think that one will create some ire in the biz world....But then I am the one who always says "Where is the outrage?"

And if the IRS gets into this that is another biggie. Look at what happened in CA. They can go back on you for years to see how much business was done and what was/was not reported.

Again, My apologies to Mike...

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Permalink Reply by Bret Teegarden on February 23, 2009 at 12:55pm

Oh George, it's all good .I value your opinions and input. I am sure Mike does too.

I think what you are saying is every person who might receive a 1099-Misc should be licensed and be paying business taxes and collecting sales tax, regardless where they take their phone calls or push a mouse.

I am not sure if that is exactly a requirement or true for every profession. What about web designers, consultants, etc.? Maybe it is going there.

I think the fact that AES is addressing this segment of the industry shows forward thinking on their part and perhaps it is the start of educating new-comers or the next generation of the best ways to do business, legally and professionally.

Permalink Reply by Mike Porter on February 23, 2009 at 1:41pm

Hey, no problem. This is a discussion forum isn't it?
MP

Permalink Reply by Lynn Fuston on February 23, 2009 at 7:35pm

I think the clergy was upset when people started being able to read the scriptures on their own and not have to come to church to have it read to them. And then that darn printing press came along and made books more commonly available so people could have their own Bibles. I think they fought that too.

How did that fight turn out, by the way?

It's been said before. "You can't put the genie back in the bottle."

But you CAN spend a lot of time and energy trying.

Great event by the way. I'm hearing lots of positive feedback.

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